43: Balancing Kindness with Clarity for Effective Leadership
Sharon:
Your tuned into to a recording of the Living While Leading Podcast which was originally recorded live on LinkedIn.
My guest today is Leahanne Hobson, the founder and CEO of Alinea Partners - a global distribution, IT reseller, channel partner and vendor consulting company.
Stay tuned as we discuss how to balance kindness with clarity for effective leadership. We’ll share insights on how showing respect, demonstrating empathy, and proper communication is essential in today’s business environment.
We’ll also hear how being seen as unkind can lead to professional setbacks and offer guidance on how to embrace your kinder self, without being perceived as weak.
Find the full transcript and other resources for women leaders at livingwhileleading.com/43
Sharon:
Welcome everybody to the Living While Leading Executive Corner. My name is Sharon Ehrlich and I’m an executive coach for women in leadership roles who want to live in work in alignment with their values. I’m also podcast hosts of the Living While Leading podcast which is broadcast every Tuesday.
I’m so happy to because I’ve invited Leahanne Hobson to talk to us today about Balancing Kindness with Clarity for Effective Leadership. Think of this session as a mentoring session for whatever stage you are in your career, you're probably going to get insight and information on ways to reframe you thinking. So I'm going to turn it over to Leahanne. Please introduce yourself to everyone.
Leahanne:
Sharon, thank you for inviting me. It's wonderful to be here. I am the CEO and founder of Alinea Partners, and we are a global distribution, IT reseller, channel partner and IT vendor consultant. What we do all day is we help companies change their portfolios, create new packages of offers that are focused on CEOs instead of CIOs, and we train salespeople on how to sell those offers.
In addition, we are the only company that does high tech, B2B secret shopping and we've done over 800 of them globally.
Sharon:
We are going to jump right into the questions just because this is a really interesting topic and I think that the audience is going to get a lot from it. The first question I'd like to start with is how do you define the balance between kindness and clarity? And why is it crucial for effective leadership in today's business environment?
Leahanne:
Maybe we should start first by defining kindness and clarity. That's particularly important to me because I have four “plus” children. And when the oldest was married, my husband was writing a speech and because we live in Austria, he was writing in German. And we were coming up trying to come up with a really good way of explaining that regardless of what happens — kindness is one of the most important things in a relationship. And even when you're really angry and we had a hard time coming up with the exact translation.
From an English perspective, I see the difference between kindness and clarity as kindness is really respect. It is empathy and it is proper communication. Where clarity is, there’s transparency. It's being concise, and it's being direct. And I think that the two can live together. And that the two have probably always been important in business. As well as in personal lives.
I think we went through a time in definitely in the high tech industry, where the two didn't always work together. Directness, took over, and kindness took a backseat and I think that it plays more and more of a role as we look at global skill shortages, in particular industries, as we look at a changing workforce where the baby boomers are now really looking at retirement, and we have a whole new generation coming into work, that frankly, has different values and different ways of looking at things which is wonderful.
To have the respect, to try to listen and understand what different people are trying to accomplish what they're trying to communicate is absolutely critical. And one of the best ways to do that is to be very direct in what you're saying. Be very clear in what you want, what you're looking to achieve, and to make sure that that is also said with equal respect for both parties involved, or multiple parties involved.
Sharon:
You said a lot there and you know that I also have a very long career in IT. And I was in the industry when things got a little mean, a little nasty. At times, just because of the speed that things were going that I think folks had the idea that being compassionate, being respectful — that there wasn't enough time to do those things. And they had to barrel straight through.
I think we all understand that that's probably not the most effective way, particularly for folks like you and I who are working in an international environment cross culturally, you know, there was so many other considerations to think of and it's such a nuanced approach that one needs when communicating in that sort of space.
How do you maintain clarity in your leadership approach, without compromising on empathy, kindness, particularly when you're having difficult conversations?
Leahanne:
One of the most difficult conversations that I can have on an almost daily basis is when I have to land the results of a secret shopping program. What we do is we actually try to buy hardware, software, and services from companies and when I have to sit with them and say, you know, we're very happy, we would have purchased from you today. Or conversely, we're disappointed we would not have been able to purchase from you this time. And then to explain why.
That conversation depending on how it's delivered, can go in many different directions. And we've been doing this since 2014. So, I've had a lot of different experiences and sales directors react very differently in the UK, as they do in Turkey or in the Nordics or in India. And so, listening is one of the tools that I've had to really hone in on and improve over time.
And, you know, you made an interesting comment about how things were before and in the high tech industry. I have to agree. It’s maybe even a little sad that we laughed about it. But we both went through it. We have the battle scars, I mean myself, I was wrapped up in it, and at times didn't necessarily perform the way that I would today. Time was an element, but I think also it was the overall cultural environment at that time.
Then I didn't listen. I thought there was a direction that we needed to move in. I moved in that direction. And frankly, I was probably suffering a bit from impostor syndrome at the time. So, I barreled ahead and did what the corporate culture demanded.
As I started my own company, as I've gone along in my overall experiences at work and at home — that listening skill is the thing that I think really brings empathy, where you can hear not only directly what's being said, but sometimes what's indirectly.
Sharon:
Empathy to me would be listening and listening with both ears, which is very difficult to think about, that we have all of these distractions. Sometimes some of us have two or three mobile devices in front of us at any given time, where they're all flashing, vibrating, and doing something and you're trying to have a conversation with someone and also attend to those distractions at the same time, makes it very difficult to listen and to hear and to really absorb what's being said.
And like you said, it's not only what's being said, but sometimes what's being implied and the nuances of how this communication is taking place.
When we talk about your leadership style, what strategies do you employ that work when you are dealing with diverse teams and international clients because you did mention that you're doing secret shopping for clients in India, in the Nordics in the UK? And how do you handle this?
Leahanne:
It's interesting because working globally and a different countries I hear quite often the same things. Every country thinks they're different. We do things differently. In many markets, there is a predisposition to think that if you are based in my country, you don't know how to work in my country.
So, I lead with the facts of what we're working on. Let's say secret shopper whether it was a good experience or a bad experience, but then I tend to have different layers, how I start to deliver the message. And if I see that something I've said make somebody changed their posture or they start to change their tone of how they're talking. Or I'm losing them because they are looking at those different screens. That I go down a level and get much more precise of what I'm talking about and much more concise.
Not in an aggressive way. But to tone down the message and to make it very, very simple. And also, to think about when I deliver that to say in an educating way or in a way that couches things as I have seen a lot of things and best practice looks like this. Companies that aren't achieving best practice, are usually doing these things and explain what those are. If you're looking to be anywhere on the scale from good to best, these are the things that you would want to look at so I also try to give options so that they can fit themselves in where they feel necessary.
Sharon:
This approach that you’ve just described me and sounds like a very non-judgmental approach. You've seen basically everything I can hardly imagine that you get surprised very easily now when you were doing these secret shopper activities in these really high stakes situations because correct me if I'm wrong but what you are trying to purchase in these scenarios are not inexpensive solutions, correct?
Leahanne:
Not necessarily. Perhaps we would be looking to buy a license of some sort of software like Microsoft 365 and then you're not looking at too much money or we're looking at buying a Dell computer for example for a big printer. Those could be things that we've been looking to buy.
We've seen a lot of things, but I always get surprised. Things that are good and bad. A lot of really good practices out there. It's very interesting to go in and really try to understand why a company has done what they've done. And to also sometimes just shed light and shed clarity on how it's being done differently, which helps them to you know, make that step.
There's really nothing out there that we've seen that is so horrible that it deserves a judgment against it. Every company that we've worked with and their other partner companies, they're out there trying to do their best. I run across very, very few companies that are out there just you're trying to make money and take advantage of people. It doesn't tend to happen in our industry. Judging people wouldn't help.
They would make the changes. It's sort of like your kids. If you start to say you should do this, you should do that. They end up doing the opposite. It's sort of the same thing. Show them the mirror, this is how you perform, but then also show them this is how you could do it differently. They tend to do it and then they tend to get more customers and keep more customers.
Sharon:
I can remember taking a similar approach when I was raising my son. There's not too much of a difference there. I want to talk a little bit about the perception of kindness versus weakness. I have had this experience for myself, where I have been a people manager or leader of teams and have tried to treat individuals with the respect that I believe everyone deserves. And sometimes that has been misconstrued as weakness. And folks have tested me and pushed me. How have you ever confronted that? And how have you navigated that perception?
Leahanne:
Can you give me one of your examples? Because it may bring something to my mind.
Sharon:
I'll give you an example that comes to mind immediately. I was leading a digital sales team in Bratislava. And there was one person on the team who would always come to me with a tale. My child has this and I need to come to work late, but I'll take that hour and I'll make it up someplace else. Fine, you can do that.
Then next day it was the dog and then the next day it was something else and you know, there was a point where I just thought, you know I can accommodate everyone. I know that we all have lives and things get very complicated. But if there is a point where I feel like I'm being taken advantage of.
But more importantly, there's a whole team there were 52 other people here and if I start to say yes to everybody, I'm going to have chaos. I won't be able to run my business. And so that became a very difficult conversation to have to say I get it, I understand. But I also have limits and there are limits because we're running a business here and there are things that we have to do. Now this is obviously a very small and simple example. But that's an example that came immediately to mind for me.
Leahanne:
Interesting. I think those types of scenarios happen a lot with employees and with clients. Something similar would be having a conversation with the client and there's something that would just make the service better that we're offering, and it really isn't too difficult for me to do it. So, I will say we'll just do that as well. I look at it as a customer delighter. Oh, I didn't expect to get that, and I suddenly have something that I didn't expect and I don't have to pay extra for it.
For example. I've certainly had instances where clients have been turned around and said, well, can you also give me a discount on this or can you offer that for free or you give them a finger and they take an arm. But in those cases, I find it pretty easy to just turn and say directly and concisely. Well, we had offered you this and we gave you this delighter with this extra piece of the service. So, at this time, we're not in a position to be able to offer you whether you want that service for free or reduced price. We see and hear from our clients that we offer a significant level of value. So, if I were to undercut myself, at that point, I would be diminishing the value of the overall company and everyone who works here. So that would be one of the other reasons that I wouldn't want to do that.
Sharon:
You do have a comment here from April, who says my perspective is that most corporate environments are awash in male perspective in history, kindness, trends towards feminine energy, hence seen as a weakness. Do you have anything you'd like to say about that Leahanne?
Leahanne:
Actually, when you asked the question, I thought, well, we always have to be careful not to sound like we're coming from a position of weakness — we are women! I resonate with that. I have to say since I started my own company, and over the years, I am confronted with that less and less maybe it's just because I'm older and have more experiences. But I also believe times have changed and being kind doesn't hurt anymore. In fact, it's seen as a definite plus point.
Sharon:
We have a lot of people who are participating here who are a little bit earlier in their career. I'd like to ask you to speak to them about what advice you would give to emerging leaders who aspire to lead with both kindness and clarity.
Leahanne:
First of all, it won't be painful. So don't worry about that. I think that to be able to speak with each of your new employees, each of the people who are going to be reporting to you individually, and to ask them about their expectations and what their accomplishments to date have been but also to talk to them personally.
It is something that will help you now but also in the future. Developing a rapport with people is always going to make sure that you are remembered and respected. That isn't everything that comes into respect, but it it definitely helps. And too often in business, people start and maybe they're a little nervous, or maybe they're a little unsure, and they get down to business, and they focus on what's important in the business. I would encourage you to start early in broadening the conversation. People still want to work for people.
And if you establish what we call people power, and I'm just explain the difference between people and position power. People power is when somebody wants to work for you, and you're respected as an individual. Position power is when you get the job of CEO or director or manager. And people tend to think that the respect comes with the position versus the person.
Sharon:
I've done a lot of sales enablement and one of the things that we always talk about in sales is that people buy from people that they know like and trust. And that's not too different from what you just described here as a leader of a new team, is that you have to know your team.
They have to trust you and the only way that's going to happen is if you actually speak to people. And I understand that folks have really aggressive targets, and they feel like they have to hit the ground running, but you won't reach your targets without your whole team buying into the mission. Right?
And so it's not a one person show when you do need to create that sort of atmosphere in this people power that you talk about really needs to be a priority.
I have a question which I think might be a tough one. If you don't want to answer it you don't have to. Now I put you on the spot here. Have you ever had an instance where being perceived as unkind lead to a significant professional setback or misunderstanding? And how did you recalibrate your approach?
Leahanne:
Yes, I had one. It doesn't haunt me, but I will tell you the story and then I will feel like I'm sitting there. Early on in my career. I was working for a high-tech company in a marketing role. And marketing was separate from communications. And I was reporting directly to the president of the European organization. But I also had a dotted line, as we say, into the US organization into marketing.
And we had a big launch coming up and instead of marketing owning the program development for the sales and marketing campaign — communications decided to do it, and they decided to do it stateside.
I was sitting in Vienna working for Europe. I tend to have an upper hand, so to speak when working with my American colleagues because we speak the same language. I'm sure you experienced that as well. I'm not as thoughtful maybe.
And what happened was, the program came out. It was a series of brochures. When marketing talked about a program. We were thinking about how is the offer packaged what's the messaging around the package? Is there a services component? Will there be an assessment with it? For example, what is the sales motion? You know, what's the call to action that you want the sales team to do once they get this information?
So many different parts were missing. And I wrote this email back thanking them very much for the materials, but there appear to be some gaps in the program. Well, my use of the word gap resulted in what probably was about a four-page long email back with lots of exclamation points, lots of bold educating me and also telling me that I did not understand, and it was very rude of me to have said there was gaps.
So obviously there was this feeling that the word gap meant they had done something horribly wrong. Underlying there were missing parts of it that we needed, but the use of that word was not a good idea. And I also had follow-up phone calls with many people from the organization stateside to mentor me on how to write emails and how to give feedback. So, it stung.
Sharon:
And one little word there, huh?
Leahanne:
Yep, three letter word which I rarely use anymore.
Sharon:
I bet you don't. And I think we all can learn a lesson from that. When we're dealing with our colleagues who speak English as a first language — avoid the word gap! There might be some other synonyms that one might use.
Leahanne, I always like to ask my guests what advice they would give to their younger self. Based on everything that you understand about your career journey, what you've experienced, working internationally, living internationally, being the CEO and founder of your own company. What would you say to the younger Leahanne?
Leahanne:
Take a deep breath and breathe a little more. Don't always think that you have to keep pushing forward pushing forward. I think that earlier on in my career, I was very much in a “What's the next step? What's the next position?” type of mode. Had I earlier breathed than maybe a few other opportunities would have come my way or experiences would have come my way that I would have also appreciated and I probably wouldn't have been as stressed as I was for the first 15 years of my career.
Sharon:
Very wise words. I appreciate your vulnerability and sharing that. Well, we are coming to the end of our show today. Leahanne, I can't believe the time has gone so fast because I have five more questions I wanted to ask!
Leahanne thank you so much for your words of wisdom. Today was a pleasure having you and I hope that one day you'll consider joining me again so we might be able to talk about your perspective on leadership and leadership topics.
Leahanne:
Happy to share and thank you very much for the opportunity.
Sharon:
Thank you, everyone, and thank you for those who participated live and for those who are listening to the podcast or the replay. All the best.